By Joey Haas
Transcript from our video interview with Ryan Lehto and Micheal Davis from DNA Memorial.
Heather:
Hi everyone, and thanks for checking in with us at Funeral Innovations: Trends, Tips and Technology, where we chat with leaders in the profession to discuss marketing trends, business tips, and technology innovation. We also chat how digital marketing helps you better serve your families. I’m Heather Mierzejewski. I am the marketing director here at Funeral Innovations.
Joey:
And I’m Joey Haas. I’m the marketing and design coordinator at Funeral Innovations. And our guests with us today are Micheal Davis, director of corporate sales with DNA Memorial and Ryan Lehto, CEO of DNA Memorial. So thanks guys for being on the show with us today. Could you just get us started by telling us a little bit about yourselves and your business, what you guys do?
Ryan:
Okay, great. So basically we’re in the business of DNA. It’s kind of an unlikely spot. You think we’d be in the funeral industry, but that’s actually turns out was the perfect fit unlikely, but that’s what it was. So I actually did my PhD in biotechnology. I have a master’s in biochemistry and honors degree in biology. So I’m the one who progressed to science. My last job was a director at the paleo DNA labs. We tried to get DNA from dinosaurs and mummies and stuff like that. So what we realized is that you didn’t need to freeze DNA to keep it viable. So we’ve got a patented process now where you actually get to store the DNA at room temperature, but it can actually be returned to the families now and stored at home. So once we came up with that idea, we figured out how do we market this? And it turned out people weren’t that interested in saving their DNA when you could just do it tomorrow or the next year, the next day. It turns out the funeral home was actually the last spot you can actually collect that DNA. So that’s where it kind of evolved into. And just with the changing marketplace and stuff, it actually became quite popular.
Joey:
So could you guys talk a little bit? Oh, and Michael, do you want to introduce yourself, sorry about that.
Micheal:
I’m Micheal Davidson. I’m the director of corporate sales here with the team. My job is really to connect with the funeral homes. I connect with the people that connect with the families, discuss the benefits of our program and added value that we bring to the clients they serve.
Joey:
So could you guys talk a little bit more specifically about what DNA Memorial does? I know, obviously you talked about, you know, preserving DNA and all that, but maybe share a little bit more about what you guys do specifically?
Ryan:
So we have, we actually offered some of the tests to go along with it. Easy, not only do you store the DNA, we also offer ancestry testing. Cause most people don’t know, you can’t get answers, ancestry testing after you’ve deceased 23andme, ancestry.com. You just can’t send it to them. It’ll fail. So they have to send it to us first, we process it and we’ve partnered with other companies like Living DNA, where you can get your ancestry done and then you can download it and upload the data to 23andme and ancenstry.com. Plus, we also do a lot of genetic testing. So you can get your grandma or grandfather or parents. This is our report. It’s about 200 pages of different diseases, anywhere from all the cancers to Alzheimer’s. You can get your predisposition found out. So what’s really important about that is building a generational library of having your grandfather’s, father’s and son’s DNA. You can start to measure mutations over generations and start to actually predict what diseases you’re going to get. A true story actually is a lady in Toronto, Ontario. She had her grandmother’s DNA and she had her mother’s DNA and she had her DNA and they tested it over over generations because she developed breast cancer in her early thirties which is fairly young cause they started around 40. So they tested back and they saw that her grandmother and her mother both had the genes, even though they didn’t have the breast cancer, but the mutations were starting to accumulate over the generations. So they predicted her daughter was going to get breast cancer, but not only was she going to get it, it was going to happen earlier in her life. So I think she got it. They started screening her around 25 and she developed it at 28 and they were able to treat it immediately. So she didn’t have any of the mastectomies or anything the mother had to endure. So she was able to get that treatment cause they were looking for it, waiting for it. So that’s some of the power now that they can use the generational DNA, right?
Heather:
That’s really interesting. And that kind of leads right, right into my next question, which was why, why is this important that families should do it? Why should families be thinking about collecting DNA from a deceased loved ones? Why should funeral directors be interested in providing this service?
Micheal:
Okay, well, DNA itself modernizes the funeral homes. It brings up some new technology. It provides the funeral home itself with a new revenue stream that does not compete with any of their other offerings. But more importantly, as we touched on it’s what it does for the families that we serve. DNA is an added value service. We can preserve the family, but also truly figure out where your family has come from. We can also connect it with future generations, the generations that are around or generations that are yet to come. And like you said, with our predisposition report, we can provide life-changing information to the families and help bridge that gap between the death care and the health care.
Ryan:
I said one thing to add to that too. So we really know about 5% of what the DNA does, that’s it? So the other 95%, we’re really not sure what it does yet. So once it’s gone, it’s gone, right. So you won’t be able to get it back. And there’s actually a great study. And then one of the neuroscience giant journals where they’ve done rats that I’ve actually indicated there’s some sort of memory actually being able to be passed down through generations too right. So just having that insurance policy of, you know, we don’t really know exactly what’s in there. What we do know is powerful, what we don’t know could be way more powerful.
Joey:
That’s really, really interesting. So could you talk about the storage process? Like do you store it and preserve it and why is that? Why is it important to keep the stuff long-term?
Ryan:
So again DNA degrades over time, right? So you can’t just take some DNA and put it somewhere. Let me just grab this out here. This is what we store it, how it looks. So this is what you get back. When you get it back from the family, that’s sort of their nitrogen gas and dried. It kind of looks like a cremated remains, but not quite. But again, so you have to have it specially preserved and treated to be able to keep it, or also just degrade over time. So people, some people think, Oh, you can get DNA from ashes or I’m going to cut some hair or just take a swab. Over time, that’s going to degree. So it has to be specially treated and we have that patented method and sorted in that form too. It’s not tested. So there’s no data floating around or insurance company can get it. No police can get it, anything like that. Right. So it’s an untested form that they can access if they ever need to, someone gets sick or if they just want to build that generational library.
Heather:
Interesting. And so I’m assuming that that could also be used for, you said for the ancestry, it say people want to find out their grandmother’s ancestry? Okay. Or you know, someone close to me, we did a DNA test with them cause they were adopted and they found their birth family based off of that. So it could be that kind of thing too, not just medical details? Interesting.
Ryan:
And that little tiny little vile has hundreds and hundreds of tests in it. So it doesn’t have to be done today. It can be done 50 years from now, 80 years from now, a hundred years from now. Right. So you can keep going back to that vile again and again. And especially as we find out more and more and more stuff.
Heather:
Do you also have a system where you guys store it for the family?
Ryan:
We do. We do have secure storage, but I would say 99% of our clients are opting for the home storage. And the thing about it in that forum too, it also can be incorporated into other items. So we have a company that we’ve licensed, that they make pendants and they do a swirly glass and all this other stuff. So instead of ashes being stored, the DNA can be put elsewhere.
Joey:
So could you guys talk about how the DNA collection process works? Who does it and you know, who has the tools and kit and all that stuff?
Ryan:
So this is the beauty of the whole thing. This is how simple it is to get some swabs, six swabs. This can be done before or after embalming. We have all the techniques to clean it out, right? You take four swabs, stick it in this little envelope, that’s coded to the funeral home. And then the other two swabs, it goes in the client file as a backup cases ever got lost in the mail hasn’t happened yet, but knock on wood and that’s it. So all you do simply inside cheek swabs, pressing fairly hard, to put in there and then send it to us that tells it takes two seconds, two minutes to do. Plus I mean, there’s a couple of situations where, you know, pre 20 week babies or severe degradation will need some cord blood or possibly a tooth or some tissue, but 99% of the cases are simple cheek swabs.
Heather:
Fair. Nice. So that’s interesting. And that’s, it doesn’t sound terribly complicated. So is there any training that the funeral directors need if they decided to go with this service?
Ryan:
Yeah, so we do offer a 45 minute, usually a webinar based training. It’s actually more just getting the clients comfortable with the products because it seems like a little bit out of their wheelhouse when they first get involved. But once we explained the process, how easy it is and then they don’t have to be DNA experts, we’re there to support them. We have a one 800 number. They could talk to anybody. It seems the families, we, even though we don’t discuss pricing or deal with the families directly, we do support them in the questions, in the answer, the testing and all that kind of stuff. So it’s super easy. And most funeral directors once they, and we also offer them our own funeral directors to sign up with us, they’re allowed to go through the process for free. So even we’ll send you guys some kits that you guys want to go through the process for free just to get your own right. Just say, once people do it, they kind of get addicted to it. Then they start going down those rabbit holes of, Oh, who was I related to in Sweden and all this other stuff.
Joey:
Totally. so is there anything else that should be known about this service maybe that people don’t know looking at your website or something like that that you guys want to share?
Ryan:
Anything you want to share on that?
Micheal:
Well, for the funeral homes that we you know, we really provide everything for you. It is a chance for a new revenue stream with zero startup costs. So we’ll provide the funeral home with the displays. We’ll provide them with their funeral directors guides and sales manuals. We’ll provide them with all this applicants that they need ongoing training for their funeral directors. If it’s something that they want to do monthly, just to rehash to bring up new things, to discuss what’s working and, you know, figure out the best ways to implement it. We’ll also help them strategize by, you know, making this available on their websites or doing social media posts to let people know that it’s, you know, it’s an offering a service that they are offering. We’re here to help support them. We’re here to help them be successful in their launch with this program to make sure that we alleviate any of the stress points that they have in any of the stress points that the families have that they’re serving.
Ryan:
One thing I just want to add to that is it kind of changes the conversation, especially on the pre-need side, it changes the conversation from death care to healthcare, right? So you actually helping the survivors instead of focused on the person that’s passed away. It’s very, it goes over very well on social media and it goes very well in the news instead of the negative slant sometimes people have about talking about death, the changes that changes that conversation. So people are more engaged about talking about it, cause it’s not, what can I do for my grandson rather than, you know, grandpa passed away kind of thing.
Heather:
Interesting. So it sounds like you help them with kind of overcoming the funeral directors with overcoming objections a little bit with marketing. Do you give them any guidance on pricing?
Ryan:
Yeah, so we do give a price sheet, but we should give them a range because there’s different, you know, from Sweden to Canada, to the US different regions in the US are all over the place too. So we give them usually a pricing structure where we say, you know, don’t go below this price, but you can charge anything you want on top of this price kind of thing. Or we have a suggested retail list, and then we have packages. So what we found is when families were coming into the funeral home this was a at Smith’s Funeral Home in the Ontario here, one of the families, the, one of the people that died from a cancer, it turns out everybody in the immediate family ordered the test and wanted the home banking. So now you’re not only selling the products to deceased people, the people that are alive say, Hey, let’s all get this together. So when we have the whole family together, we’ll offer packages where they can all get it done for substantially cheaper.
Heather:
Interesting. And Joey, before we move on to that next question, will you guys just talk about distribution, who is adopting this? Are you in funeral homes in different regions? How many funeral homes are you working with? That sort of thing.
Ryan:
So rooftops, we’re probably about 900 rooftops right now. Arbor Memorial is the biggest funeral chain in Canada. They have us in all our locations. We have, you know, tons of independents. Our favorite customer is actually the multi-location, family-owned independents. We just is love working with them, usually great people and they, you know, great business. So those are our favorite customers. And we have lots of those, like Sheddinger in Ohio and Gathneeds in the Washington. And so regionally we’re spaced over the entire US and entire Canada. We have the biggest chains in Sweden. We’re working in a company in Ireland and then we’re moving into Germany as well. So we have interest from Australia. So it’s actually a global thing, but I would say the Midwest us is actually surprisingly one of our best clients.
Heather:
Interesting. Yeah.
Joey:
So we like to talk about, you know, trends and innovation. And so what are trends that you guys are seeing in the industry right now? And what new innovations are you seeing kind of on the horizon for the death care profession or the DNA biotech space, either one, but you know, if you guys have anything you’re seeing coming up, that’d be great.
Ryan:
Well, we just ended up in the funeral industry here, so we really didn’t know much about it. So we’ve really had this steep learning curve and we got in there, but what we noticed is there was no innovation in the funeral industry for like a long time. I think. So maybe the past 10 years has accelerated so much I think cremation, the Internet’s really pushed that. So it’s forced funeral directors, a lot of younger women involved now too, which is really helping adopt new ideas, new stuff. I found it’s not just the old guy like the old funeral director from the seventies kind of thing. We run into those guys too. And some of them come aboard, but the younger people that are really pushing the innovation and the technology like streaming video now, you know, doing DNA stuff, all this so much new stuff coming, I bet you the last five years, it’s probably progressed more than a hundred years.
Heather:
Yeah. Interesting. And do you see anything else in the DNA or biotech space pushing into the funeral profession?
Ryan:
Very much so, because now it’s kind of becoming all integrated. So funeral homes are actually becoming these multi you know, professional organizations. It’s not just burying a guy doing a service. They’re offering counseling, they’re offering now pre needs, they’re offering, you know, now with our healthcare stuff, that kind of thing. So they’re becoming a multi, I think that’s where it’s going to evolve to is they’re not just going to be a death care space. They’re going to be counseling. They’re going to be a whole support structure for the family. That’s what I really see coming.
Heather:
Hmm. That’s a really interesting insight that more big picture yeah, the caring for the family and however they need whatever that looks like. And I know that, I mean the biotech space is just, it’s evolving so rapidly right now. So who knows what else you guys will be able to figure out to help folks out.
Ryan:
For sure. Yeah.
Joey:
So where can people find you guys online? How can people contact you? How can people get in touch?
Micheal:
Well, they can go to our website, dnamemorial.com or our direct to consumer website, lazarusdna.com. You can reach us. Our emails are our name, Michael.Davis@GlobalGeneticHealth. We are available here all the time. You know, we’re always interested in hearing customer feedback, hearing from the funeral directors who, you know, possibly want to bring us on or people who have been dealing with us for a long time and had successes. And even some of the ones, you know, who haven’t had it be as successful, we like hearing from them too, because you know, there’s just little ways that we can tweak it to make sure that it’s working for everybody.
Ryan:
We also do some educational stuff too. I did a webinar for the NFDA. We’re going to be, do another one of those pretty soon, so you’ll get your professional credits kind of thing. We’re going to be hosting one of those for the Ontario Funeral Directors Association. And then we’re working with Australia Directors to give them CU credits kind of thing. So I’m really working on that side of things. And eventually we’re developing a module for certification for funeral directors so they can get certified. So make sure everybody has the same standard of knowledge. So it’s, you know, there’s no different levels all over the place here.
Micheal:
You can follow us on LinkedIn as well. It’s another resource that we use to, put out, informative information for people, you know, stuff that might be up to date or new products and new services that we’re going to be rolling out. We like to throw it out to there and, you know, that gets out to a lot of the funeral directors pretty quickly.
Heather:
Terrific. That’s good to know. And Joey, would you be sure to put the, put a link in the description so that people can get to that and then that last slide. Awesome. Do you want to do the last question, Joey?
Joey:
Yeah. Sure. So we have one last question for you guys. This is something we ask everybody. And so what is the biggest lesson you’ve learned since serving in the, in this profession? So, you know, that could be in terms of funeral, home and death care profession or the biotech space or both.
Ryan:
I think for me in the funeral space, it’s very emotional. Like we had some like babies pass away and stuff and they send the pictures and just being involved with that. It takes kind of an emotional toll, but at the end of it, it’s very rewarding, right. So I kind of, it’s very difficult, but at the end of it it’s worth it. So that’s what I kind of got that emotional connection where even though some days it’s really tough at the end of the day, you just feel really good going home. And it’s counterintuitive that you’re dealing with loss and all this other stuff, but you get a real sense of, I don’t know, accomplishment or hard to hard to say, but something like that. What would be yours?
Micheal:
Yeah. It’s a, you know, just answering those important questions for the families. A lot of families, you know, ask like why, why did this happen? You know, is it going to happen to me or can it happen to me? Being able to answer those questions is very life changing for the family. I have two boys who suffer with a genetic disposition. If it wasn’t for genetic testing, we wouldn’t have found this out so early. So they’re receiving early treatment as early as, one years old, they started getting treatment to avoid some of the things that I’ve went through. And just knowing that we can be that change for other families, you know, it’s, it, it is a real big eye-opener.
Heather:
Mm. And that’s, I think what you’re specifically talking about Mike might apply to those families that unfortunately lose a child or have something like that going can really get them some answers to the questions. Wow. What a powerful, what a powerful tool.
Joey:
Yeah, so those are all the questions we have for you guys. Thank you so much, Ryan and Mike, we really appreciate your time. And thanks for joining us this week on Funeral Innovations: Trends, Tips, and Technology. So we’ll be posting this video on our blog, on our YouTube channel and on our Facebook feed. So you’ll be able to access it there and feel free to check back in with us next week. Cause we’ll have another show. So if you have topics you’d like to see discussed or someone you’d like to hear from in an interview, add it in the comments down below and be sure to visit our website at funeralinnovations.com. Thank you so much. You guys have a great day.
Ryan:
Thank you. Bye.
