By Joey Haas
Transcript from our video interview with Phil Tassi at Ferncliff Cemetery and Crematory
Heather:
Hi everyone. And thanks for checking in with us at Funeral Innovations: Trends, Tips and Technology, where we chat with leaders in the profession to discuss marketing trends, business tips, and technology innovation. And we talk about how digital marketing helps you better serve your families. I’m Heather Mierzejewski. I am the marketing director here at Funeral Innovations.
Joey:
And I’m Joey. I’m the marketing and design coordinator at Funeral Innovations.
Heather:
And today our guest is Phil Tassi from Ferncliff Cemetery and Crematory. Thanks so much for joining us today, Phil,
Phil:
Thank you for having me.
Heather:
Yeah. Could you just get us started by telling us a little bit about yourself and your business, where you guys are, who you serve, that sort of thing?
Phil:
Well, Ferncliff is in Westchester County, so we’re just North of the New York City line. I have been well, I’m the chief financial officer at Ferncliff, but I’m also in charge of sales and marketing as just one of my many functions. I’ve been coming to Ferncliff as an auditor since 1984. So I’ve seen the business for a long time, but I’ve been full time for 22 years here. And I’m also as of today, I’m the past president of the New York State Association of Cemeteries, which is a group of cemeteries around New York state.
Heather:
Terrific. Go ahead, Joey.
Joey:
Yeah. So you guys are in New York, obviously. And so could you talk about how you were impacted by the pandemic early on?
Phil:
Well, the pandemic, it was, we were hit pretty badly. I mean, at the crematory we normally do about 11 to 12 cremations a day. We went up to doing 25 a day, which was our capacity. There were days we were getting calls for between 60 and 70 cases. So we were getting three times the volume. Our interments went to almost 400% per week and we were doing all of that at half staff cause we left half the staff at home. And you know, as busy as we were, you know, the cemeteries of the New York City area were hit even more than we were, but from a crematory and there were four crematories in New York City and since were really 10 miles north of the city where also an option for many of the Bronx and the New York funeral homes that use a crematory.
Heather:
Gotcha. That sounds really intense. What has changed since then? How are things now, I guess?
Phil:
Well, I think the volume has gone down, but especially in this, in the New York city area, you know, we’re not back up to anywhere near the new normal and we still our office is closed to the public, which isn’t technically closed. I mean, if you come to the office, you call up, somebody will come out, you know, but we’re wearing still all the PPE equipment is around. Our sales staff has started doing virtual meetings in addition to in-person meetings. In New York, there are still restrictions on the sizes of funerals and gatherings. So where you could in the past get a graveside funeral of 200 people, now there’s a capacity limit of 50 where you can’t have any more than 50 people, you know, attending the service. So there has also been a shift. I think the cremation rate in the state is going up tremendously where prior to the pandemic we were running probably in the low 50%. During the pandemic, we went up into the eighties. And I still think that, you know, because you don’t have the gatherings, you have travel limitations or restrictions, that cremation is becoming a better options for families that are spread out throughout the country, that they can do a cremation today and have a memorial service at some point in the future.
Joey:
So I think that actually leads into our next question pretty well. Cause obviously you talked about how your sales team is doing virtual meetings and you know, the increase in cremation, all that because of the lack of services. And so you obviously had a lot of families that couldn’t have a service during the pandemic. And so could you talk a little bit about how you’re reaching out to those families now?
Phil:
Well, I mean, it depends on for the cremation families actually during the pandemic, because we were running at half staff, we asked people to postpone the inurnment if they were going into a niche or, and internment, if the cremains were going into a grave because we were really running very tight schedule and most of the families were willing. So now we’ve got, you know, after, I’d say mid June to late June, you know, we’ve called all those families. We’ve scheduled most of them, most of them have already done the burial of the cremated remains. You know, as far as for the full bodies, our aftercare program is still part of it. So we’re encouraging people when they come back, meet with counselors, if they want to have another service, it still has be small, but you know, we’re willing to let them do a memorial service at the graveside or at the crypt.
Heather:
And are you doing anything special to reach out to those families and encourage them to come back in or be sure that they kind of take advantage of the opportunity to say goodbye in a different way?
Phil:
It’s basically our sales staff is we have a unique group of individuals who really become very friendly with most of the families. So a lot of the outreach is it’s just checking up on people. It’s not really saying, do you want to have a secondary service? And for a lot of people they’re not ready to because their brother’s still in California. If you fly to New York, you’ve gotta be quarantined for two weeks before you could even attend the service. So that’s where I said, we’re really in a bad position for families to still get together. Again, we have limitations on the size of social gatherings. I think 36 States, if you come to New York, you have to quarantine for two weeks. So it’s still a difficult period of time to try to get families together.
Joey:
So in your marketing are you using video and how do you use that?
Phil:
Well, we are using video and actually working with Funeral Innovations right now to sort of increase the video exposure. On our website, we have about eight informational videos for different types of whether it’s permanent memorialization, whether it’s cremation memorialization, we have a whole group on advanced planning. There’s a whole group of videos we have. So now we’re working with Funeral Innovations from the video aspect because they’re all informational, that has a short introduction to the video that goes to a specific landing page. You get the introduction, if you want to hear the entire video, it goes directly into our website where you can see the whole video. Other things we’re doing because we have, we utilize Cemetery 360 and CEMLS our sales staff now is able to do Zoom presentations where if a family’s not comfortable coming to the cemetery, they’ll actually do a whole presentation. We can’t show specific graves, but we can show aisles in a mausoleum. We can show sections of the cemetery that are available for sale and they can do that remotely.
Heather:
So you mentioned too, I think those are pieces of software that you use. What were they?
Phil:
Yes. So it’s CEMLS is more like an MLS listing for cemeteries. They actually have the capacity because you could actually go grave by grave or crypt by crypt and show specific ones. We’ve done it more by section because it just, you know, we have limited inventory and to keep taking stuff down and putting it up, but it’s basically a multiple listing service for cemetery property. The Cemetery 360, you can do it as a virtual tour of the cemetery. So the they’ve basically taken videos at different increments of the entire cemetery and all of our buildings. So you can tour the entire property on our website.
Heather:
That makes a lot of sense. And I bet that is particularly useful since the pandemic, when people aren’t as willing to come.
Phil:
Yes, again, it gives people the ability if they can come, you know, especially on an at-need basis where if somebody doesn’t feel comfortable coming to the cemetery, they need to pick out a grave or a crypt. At least we can show them. This is the section that your loved one’s going to be in.
Heather:
That’s great. I wanted to just follow up on the videos that you’ve had done. I know that we’re helping you promote those and drive people back to your website, but can you talk about the videos themselves? You had those professionally done by another agency, I think, is that right?
Phil:
Yes. Yes. We work with Terry Smith Communications and have for years, and this is actually our second version of them. We had about 10 years ago done four promotional videos that were done by Gary O’Sullivan, who was, you know, the ICCF speaker of the year twice. I mean, decade, two times. He had done promotional videos, basically explaining advanced planning and the pre-need concepts. But what we wanted to do with our website is make our website more informational, not sales driven. So we created, we came up with different topics that we thought that the public would be interested in. So, you know, the importance of memorialization is one of them. And then, you know, so we hired an actor that I’ve known for years, you know, who came in and they will all of the video and the voiceovers, but Terry had written scripts that we worked on. So, you know, the, the six different topics, which, again, that’s from our permanent memorialization, the importance of memorialization, cremation, cremation memorialization, indoor burial, outdoor burial and different variations. They’re all informational pieces. And now we’re working with Funeral Innovations to get that informational video out there. So whether it’s on Facebook, whether we do it through an email campaign, but to give people the opportunity to get educated on memorialization.
Heather:
That’s great. And I think the two key things in there for people to remember, you know, you have the content creation, which is important that you get the right topic, that it looks good, all that sort of thing to have the right message, but then also you have to promote it or people won’t know about it. Terrific.
Joey:
And so, and, you know, you talked about the reason for those videos and you’re want to increase that educational aspect on your website and all that stuff. You talked a little bit about how those videos have been received and what the public has thought about them, you know, maybe talk about your engagement with you know, the public on your Facebook, through those videos.
Phil:
Well, we’re just really starting on the videos on Facebook, so I can’t really comment on the interaction with Facebook, but you know, a lot of the things that we do on our website and, you know, we ask people to complete surveys. So, you know, one of the questions of the survey is about the informational videos, which ones say, well, you know, usually people are very appreciative of them. They say that they’ve been well-informed, you know, so it’s always been, I’ve never seen a negative feedback on the video where somebody has been, you know, thought that they didn’t get what they received. I mean, the original concept of even doing the videos and the educational part really stems from cremation and how so many families, you know, who go through the cremation process, don’t want memorialize. That if you think that only 20 to 25% of the people who get cremated ended up in, up in a cemetery. And one of the reasons is that they don’t even know that that’s an option. They look at cremation as final disposition. So the thought was to educate people on the importance of a cemetery and why you need to memorialize and the value of having a place for your, whether it’s your children, grandchildren, great grandchildren to come and learn about the life of their grandparents or their parents. So,
Heather:
Yeah, I think you said it, this is my follow up question here. You kind of just said it, but for people who don’t know, why is that important to have that place for loved ones to come back to?
Phil:
Again, it’s, as we say here, this is where memories live. You know, it’s a place where you can come and, you know and just introduce your kids, your grandkids, to your parents, your grandparents, to discuss their lives. You know, it’s, you know, you know that grandma and grandpa are here at the cemetery, you know that it’s not that, I mean, grant that you can do. And if they’re on a mantle, you can certainly do that. But over time, I think that loses its value where the cemetery it’s permanent, we’re here for eternity, but, you know, generations can come and learn about, know their family. And if, look at the way, ancestry is going, people researching, doing genealogy. It’s very big. People want to know about their past, you know, and that’s where the importance of the cemetery is. It’s it’s, the life is still here. The memories are always going to be here.
Heather:
That’s a great point.
Joey:
Yeah. I think that was very well said. Could you talk about how you guys do pre-planning and kind of what that looks like from the approach of a cemetery?
Phil:
Well, we have different aspects of pre-planning. If we look at premium, which is about pre-pandemic, we have been running somewheres around 65 to 70% preneed, but all preplanning process really starts with, we have a planning guide. So a lot of our promotional material whether it’s print ads, Facebook, is that we encourage people to get a planning guide, which will help them work through the entire process of the things that you need and why you need to be prepared. You know, so it’s really our staff educating people on the importance of pre-planning, you know, the reasons to do it, whether it’s, you know, it’s that the family gets to choose together and decide on where they want to be and what the plots are. You know, not having to go through them. And I know when my father passed away, you know, my parents would always say we’ve taken care of everything until the day that I went to the house, when my father had passed away on my mother’s side, we picked a cemetery plot, but had done nothing on the funeral side. So, you know, here we are, it’s trying to get my sisters together and make decisions that, you know, have they been made ahead of time would have made life much easier and we would have known that’s what dad would have wanted it. You know, so it’s really, our staff is very well educated on the importance of pre-planning and the need, and they explain it to the families, the benefits of securing your, not only cemetery space, it’s really doing the whole funeral process. It’s, you know, having your funeral home plus your cemetery preplanned.
Heather:
And you just do the plans on the cemetery side, right? Because New York’s a state that keeps things separate?
Phil:
That’s correct. We sell burial rights and services. If somebody gets cremated in New York state, you go to a funeral home. The funeral home subcontracts for us, for the actual service of the cremation.
Heather:
Does it ever work the other way, where they come to you first and then you subcontract with a funeral home? Or do you partner with them?
Phil:
No, we were not allowed to partner with people. We do not subcontract with people, but there are many times where families will come here looking for burial space first. And again, because we go through the planning guide and the importance of pre-planning, our a staff will let people know that you really should consider preplanning your funeral as well, because they really should go hand in hand. So, you know, they will, if somebody asks, refer anybody to two or three funeral homes, depending on the neighborhood of where they want to be. Again, I guess we’re like every place else it’s like, even though New York’s such a big thing, you know, when it comes to funerals and cemeteries, it’s very geographically located. So, you know, if you’re in Bronxville, they’ll name three funeral homes in Bronxville, they’re not going to name a funeral home in Eastchester.
Heather:
Right. And this may be more of a question for other people other than folks inside the profession, but is there a different sort of demographic that pre-plans with a cemetery then pre-plans with a funeral home? Are there differences between those two populations?
Phil:
I’m not sure what demographically, if there’s a change, I mean, put, we have different grant, different demographics in Ferncliff alone though, we have big ethnic basis inside that we have large community mausoleums. So we have many Italian families and Asian families who prefer mausoleum entombment, you know, on the outside grounds, we have different religious beliefs and nationalities. And I think that actually even the types of graves, so lawn crypts, they, you know, they tend to drift towards, but yeah.
Heather:
So you really have to segment who is going or how you, how different people plan to accommodate all those different sort of cultural needs.
Phil:
Well, I think it’s more not planning because there is still an integration. And if you look at a community mausoleum, it’s not just two or three nationalities in that, there are many, it’s just that, you know, we probably have 75% of one nationality in one of our buildings. So if there’s 10,000 crypts in that building 7,500 nationality, but the 2,500 is a whole blend of different religions nationalities. So when we will market it, especially if we’re trying to market a mausoleum, we will look into demographics and market to the demographic that comes to Ferncliff because even then, the demographics don’t, if you look at the different mausoleums in this area where we have one demographic that generally comes to Ferncliff five miles down the road, another cemetery may have a completely different that goes there for the same, you know, burial products.
Heather:
Yeah. Know your customer. That makes a lot of sense.
Joey:
Definitely. So is there anything else that you think people, families or other funeral directors would benefit from knowing about Ferncliff?
Phil:
Well, again, I think it’s more important for families to know. Most of the funeral directors in this area know about Ferncliff. But I mean, this is a place again where memories live. We are very community-oriented, you know, unfortunately for the first time in 15 years, we’re not having a tree lighting because normally we get between 1500 and 2000 people at our annual tree lighting. It’s very peaceful, very respectful. We have a wonderful staff who, you know, deal very well with families, whether it’s in grief, whether it’s educating them. And it’s a beautiful property.
Joey:
It’s always a bonus. I’m sorry, just to touch back on that tree lighting. Are, are you guys sorting through alternatives for something like that and maybe, you know, in a virtual way or you know, are you guys thinking about planning an alternative to that tree lighting?
Phil:
We have thought about some alternatives. It’s just the way our cemetery is not that big acreage wise. Most of our outdoor space are already graves. We’re not going to do any type of celebration where we would be encroaching on somebody’s grave. So we don’t have a lot of alternatives. One of the things we do with the annual tree lighting is that we provide ornaments for families to hang on the tree or take home. It’s their choice. But you know where right now, probably going to leave the second, the bottom half of the tree, empty for people to bring their own ornaments. You know, where if you want, you can bring your own ornaments, and hang it. But even that you have to wonder then, how do you get the ornament back to a family? So it’s difficult to come up with that and doing a virtual tree lighting. I don’t think it’s the same thing as having it live. I mean, you know, I mean, during our tree lighting, we have carolers, we have, you know, inspirational speakers and I don’t think it’s would be the same thing if you’re watching it on a video screen.
Heather:
That makes sense.
Phil:
But we may come up with something to do in the summer. And once, you know, if the virus ever gets on the control, we may come up with a different type of memorial service that will just, you know, instead of it being a tree lighting, we may have a spring or a summer type of event that will be an alternate.
Heather:
That’s a good idea. I think we all have high hopes for next summer. This is our last question. We ask everybody this question. Could you tell us what’s the biggest lesson you’ve learned while serving in this profession?
Phil:
Well, again, the importance of memorialization and that families have trusted us with their loved ones for eternity. So it’s a big responsibility that we need to be here forever. We want to keep the place as beautiful as it is forever. And, you know, and therefore we have a financial responsibility to maintain the assets the way we do so that we can take care of this place and ensure that the families that trusted us with their loved ones, you know, that they’ll be taken care of forever.
Joey:
Yeah. It’s a great way to think about that relationship and building that trust. And yeah, I think that’s a very well said and important. So those are all the questions we have. Thank you so much, Phil. We really appreciate your time. And thanks for joining us this week on Funeral Innovations: Trends, Tips, and Technology. So we’ll be posting this video on our blog, on our YouTube channels, and you’ll be able to access it on your Facebook feed. And we’ll be back with another show soon. So check back in with us next week. If you have any topics you’d like to see discussed or someone you’d like to hear from in an interview, add it in the comments down below and be sure to visit our website at funeralinnovations.com. Thanks so much, Phil. Have a great day.
Phil:
Thank you. Have a great day.
